Joan wrote:Then look at the design of the collar, it seems that it works by holding the part of the collar which tightens when the dog pulls, high up on the neck, in the most vulnerable, delicate part , so in effect it is a device to make it easier you choke your dog more efficiently.

So it's like an American check collar then ??

Corryne wrote:I tried lots of different techniques and approaches before i excepted i had a weimaraner

I know I often pee people off with my attituide about this - but I just cannot accept that it's OK to accpet unruly behaviour onlead because 'it's a weimaraner' Why is that any different to walking any other breed of dog ??

I am going to steer clear of the Cesar debate but wanted to say that to me, there is no reason to accept bad behaviour on lead from any breed. Casper is worse on lead than Skye, so having a weimy is no excuse for pulling!!! At training classes, we use food to encourage the dog to stay close and keep its eye on the owner. This works really well and skye NEVER takes her eyes off me She is constantly watching me and doesnt even pay attention to what is ahead and therefore dosnt pull. All I have to do is tell her to watch me and close as we move off, with her on my left side, her lead held in my right hand and food in my left hand near her nose so she gets a good sniff of something yummy It works really well with her and stops her from wanting to rip my arm out of its socket

Skye08 wrote:I am going to steer clear of the Cesar debate but wanted to say that to me, there is no reason to accept bad behaviour on lead from any breed. Casper is worse on lead than Skye, so having a weimy is no excuse for pulling!!!

We all have different tolerances. Cos I don't drive and am not particularly big or strong, it was important for me to get a handle on lead walking, wheras Pete is strong so has never put any effort into trying to teach her to walk nicely. Its frustrating but at the end of the day, its his dog too.

I kinda figured that weimaraners are just like all other dogs except for the fact that they tend to learn a lot more quickly than most, and once the lesson's learnt they'll spend the rest of their lives working out the exception to the rules. For Cindy, that might mean its unacceptable to pull on the lead if we're walking around the village, but if we're somewhere strange, or with someone else, or anything is different to normal, its worth a try.

As for CM - as far as I'm concerned, TV generally has 2 purposes: To promote (as in advertise) and to entertain. Programmes aren't generally scheduled by experts in any particular field, their sheduled by people who want to sell tv to increase their ratings and so their income.If it looks good, it'll sell better. What you see on the screen is what is chosen to make you want to watch it and for every 5 mins of footage you see, there are hours of footage edited out.

there are a few assumptions on how the collar works so rather than guess I'll see if I can get hold of one and get someone to do a trial run with it. I can understand not wanting to place these collars on small dogs because they don't have much neck and would do damage I can also understand not putting them on puppies for the same reason... I would think this is more to cover their own liability as alot of the other collars and head collars stipulate similar instructions.

Has anyone on here actually said that it was ok for a Weimaraner to pull on the lead? Many dogs do pull on the lead, not just Weimaraners and most of us try to train them otherwise by using various methods and aids. That isn't the same as saying we think it's ok for them to pull. Your 'no-nosense' approach may be your choice of methods, others have theirs.

I have had milo this weekend i must say he was easier to walk than Tia! which does make me look like a bad mummy now

Lis from seeing your 2 that have always been on best behaviour when i have seen them, i know howwell behaved weims can be!!!! Little angels!!

Now i can talk with experience owning a real mix
Alph is the worst, he pulls like a steam train late for something , tried various things to no avail, although amazingly the other day my niece walked him, only on a country road and he was excellant
Libby is one of those dogs that would walk to heel perfectly if she wasnt on a lead
Moxy in her younger days wasnt too bad.
Loki is great apart from the lying down, which is happening less and less.
Although add a bit of rain and its a different story

I'm afraid all my dogs (Weis and Brits) have been bad for pulling on the lead, and I'm sure it's my fault, not theirs.

We have to remember that not all weims are the same. Holly walks to heel, Rossi pulls. It all depends on how excitable or laid back the dog is by nature. Holly has always been happy to amble and then have a little hunt. Rossi on the other hand is in permanent hunting mode when he is outdoors. He does walk to heel, in a fashion, on the way home

Corryne wrote:Lisa I do not except unruly behaviour on lead and havent budged an inch since first putting a lead on Milo not for a second have I thought "he is a weim so il except he pulls", his complete stubborness is what keeps him thinking he might be able to get away with it, a well documented trait of Weimaraners.
I think you have totally missed the point and have focused on one lighthearted comment in my post.

Yes apologise - it did read as though I was saying that you might accept it- in fact I wasn't, the method you are adopting for training your dog to walk welll on a lead is what I have done.

What really winds me up still though, is people ( generally ) still say things like 'oh it's a weim' and this label the breed still has. Yes they have their traits, but they really are not all that difficult to train. I actually wonder if people who have real problems with their dogs would have the same difficulties with any breed - some people are just not doggy - does that make sense ?

I am beginning to think as well, that with all the positive training methods advocated these days - which are good and the way forward, no question about that - that there are no consequences to a dog misbehaving and disobeying their owner. I am not suggesting we revert back to thrash and bash training by any stretch of the imagination, that is certainly not my style, but people should not be afraid to tell their dogs off and let them know when behaviour is unacceptable. People are frightened to 'correct' their dog if it is being naughty / disobedient and sometimes that is all that is required.

I do think that sometimes our breed does get tarred with a rather naughty brush that is a little unfair. Lead walking is down to leadership and the relationship between you and your dog at least that is what I have always been led to believe. I can't say Bonnie is perfect she pulls too but as they say practise makes perfect. What I do like is when people meet her and are surprised that some weims aren't all a nightmare.

tasha wrote:What I do like is when people meet her and are surprised that some weims aren't all a nightmare.

I get that with Bilbo. He is very calm even at his age- well, except for the zoomies but I've put it down to me being more laid back because he is my third. They do seem - unfairly as you say - to have this reputation for being OTT. My vet and the lady at dog training have both remarked on it. I don't think it is that unusual...it is just the reputation that goes before.

sadly alot of the wrong people own them, I think Wegmans cute puppy pics have alot to answer to...

Weimaraners are not the only breed who will pull like a train unless trained not to. Any strong active breed with a great enthusiasm for life will pull unless trained. I think one of the biggest problems is that people don't start the training early enough and only start to do something about it when the pulling is well established. Before anyone says anything, I know rescues are a different matter and owners are having to put right other people's mistakes.

I really don't agree with the reputation they have been given.When I had my first weim, they hadn't been around long enough to have earned a reputation. I was shocked when I first got Jas and started puppy class at 4 months, there were a few raised eyebrows and comments about a previous weim in the class who's owner had no control. Jas changed a lot of people's opinions, partly becauase I'd already trained the basics and partly because she was very easy to train and was always the best in the class.

I agree with Lisa, some people see 'positive reward based training' means you can't tell you dog off, which is not true. They need to be told when they're wrong, but verbally, not physically. It's the same with children too, parents who never reprimand their children when they are out of order have unruly children, it only needs a word and a redirection on to better behaviour, followed by praise of course.

As for Cesar Milan, people who defend him say, 'he's only using the equipment the owners already have' well as far as I'm concerned , that is a cop out, a good trainer will recommend the best equipment or at the very least teach the owners how to use their equipment properly. The last time I saw a bit of one of his programmes, he was jerking on the lead of a dog wearing a prong collar. As Diana mentioned, the programmes are edited, only a fraction of the filming will get on TV, they edit to make him look good, so obviously he thinks jerking on a prong collar to hurt the dog, is good